taskSavannah Administration - Tasks: task #3657, Submission of North North West...

 
 

task #3657: Submission of North North West non-polynomial

Submitted by:  ed van der meulen <ameulen>
Submitted on:  Tue 18 Jan 2005 04:16:21 PM UTC  
 
Should Start On:  Mon 24 Jan 2005 12:00:00 AM UTC Should be Finished on:  Mon 24 Jan 2005 12:00:00 AM UTC
Category:  Project Approval Priority:  5 - Normal
Status:  Cancelled Privacy:  Public
Percent Complete:  30% Assigned to:  Jonathan Gonzalez V. <zeus>
Open/Closed:  Closed Effort:  0.00

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Fri 28 Jan 2005 05:03:14 PM UTC, comment #18: 

Again not successful with login. It's your problem. Not mine.

You haven't read my postings well that was clear to me. So you are free to delete all things of me here. We go separate ways now.

No hard feeling.

I wish you all goods

ed

Anonymous
Fri 28 Jan 2005 03:59:23 PM UTC, comment #17: 

Well, I guess I close this submission then.

If you have the time, please post a support request at https://savannah.gnu.org/support/?group=administration describing your login problems. Maybe you logged to savannah.gnu.org, and didn't check the checkbox to automatically login to savannah.nongnu.org?

All the best.

Sylvain Beucler <Beuc>
Thu 27 Jan 2005 04:29:25 PM UTC, comment #16: 

I was logged in. Now no more. But that has no more importance for me.

I think I already have told to you everything. So for me it was enough.

We have a serious language problem.

I wish you best

ed

Anonymous
Thu 27 Jan 2005 03:49:45 PM UTC, comment #15: 

I did read your posts. But when there is a language barrier, confirmation is essential. Hence why I tried to recap.

It is also essential that both parties consider the other people as friendly and adult. When one consider the other one as a child or as unfriendly the conversation is very likely to end in a bad way - like now, it seems.

Sylvain Beucler <Beuc>
Thu 27 Jan 2005 03:27:41 PM UTC, comment #14: 

Yes I think we have serious language problems.

Do you see me as a child. I don't confirm anything. I domn't explain thinghs two times

I have no more time for this unusuful things. You didn't read my posting in a well way.

Fare well I leave Savannah now. It was really enough for me.

I wish you the best and we go different ways now.

I thank you for your time you have spent on me.

ed

ed van der meulen <ameulen>
Thu 27 Jan 2005 02:46:06 PM UTC, comment #13: 

Ok, I think there is a language barrier problem :)

To recap:

- your project does not have source code yet. We need code to review it and catch potential legal issues. So we can approve the project and review it in one month (or more) when there will be published code.
For example, did you read http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Notices.html ?
It documents the preferred way to add copyright notices in the source code files.

- you have a general SF project, but this project is specific sub-project, and will use Savannah as a primary development platform (ie, Savannah will not be used just as a mirror, which we do not permit). In this case, we can accept your project.
The fact you have a SF account is a problem only if you use Savannah as a mirror; if you use SF as a mirror, then it is not a problem for us (maybe for the SF people, but that's not our problem).

Ed van der Meulen, can you confirm the above points?

- the last point we require for Savannah hosting is to keep sure it can run on a completely free operating system; but do not wish to host "unpure" free program that require proprieray dependencies. Since you have no source code, it is difficult to check this. However, can you tell us what tools you plan to use for the future development?

Last, the approval process is ran by volunteers. So, it is acceptable to wait for a few days before to get an answer. If we don't reply, that just mean we didn't have the time to look at your message; we do not ignore posts.

On a side note, I sent you a mail asking precisions for your login problem. Can you detail us what login problems you get? If there is a login issue at Savannah, that's important, and we need to fix it.

Sylvain Beucler <Beuc>
Thu 27 Jan 2005 01:52:19 AM UTC, comment #12: 

Hi,

Please take my apologies if you feel my last answer as not so friendly
or tolerant.

Well, you turn all the things in your comments, first, you said that
you can leave Savannah, and then you post 5 comments on this tracker,
so, what do you really want to do? please define your position in this
process, because we have a lot of project to review  and we want to
make this process as far as is possible.

If you still want to host your project at Savannah, can you be more
precise in what project you will host? If you are going to have your
project hosted in SourceForge, you must explicitly say that the
project it's just an empty one and the real project it's hosted at
Savannah, with this you will define Savannah as your primary
development platform.

Regards,

Jonathan Gonzalez V. <zeus>
Project MemberIn charge of this item.
Wed 26 Jan 2005 08:45:55 PM UTC, comment #11: 

Geen fout melding, Niet logged in, Niet veel tijd dit is en source module van NNW

http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/nnw/nnw-0.05-pre2/dorm2.c?rev=1.1.1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

The layout is wrong. Comment is very inportant and shown wrong. In a normal layuout it's better to read but still members have to study it. This is an example of how we code.

Yes in a differntr way and in the computer with only shifting. I anm a pure mathematician but I know the limits of mathematics as well so you don't see mathematical function at all in the sources.

And so it works a lot faster as well.

I have also a paper on debios.de. Debios is far more critical in Germany that the Sourceforge community. And in that paper I already promote there the free software group that is still a tiny group.

And I promote of course also the host themselves, because they do work for me.

I sory the login went wrong again. Maybe for the 6th time.

I am normaly a BSD user but now I use ie.

Our demos are for linux and BSD destributions however.

The never ending story. I don't know what i can do more for you.

ed van der meulen

Anonymous
Wed 26 Jan 2005 08:15:04 PM UTC, comment #10: 

The mother project is for many people too new. We have about 800 docs about it and there's much to read about what we do.

Our ways of developing is with factual thinking. This paper was written for the target group language lovers.

http://nnw.berlios.de/docs.php/intro-ftl/noflash

And so factual developing. Meaning wanting results. We are emailing friendly so we stimulate each other. The whole is more than the sum of the parts. So we are coming further than normally and we have better results. I can show the papers about it. This is a way for developing for simulation tools. Not for the GUI we do that in a conventional way.

We think before we code. And tomorrow we know more than to day. Logical factors for a better way of developing for simulation tools.

And you can wait a considerable time before we can show sources and then by the layers you can't judge it. But extending the code is an easy task.

And for free we get a new feature. We can proof that the sources or better the center of the sources are error free.

The use of memory we have to test separately. That are risky places. But not the real important code. Also the modules are rather small, and surprisinly they are working.

In NNW the artificial intelligence nets, have to sleep. The deep sleep module, version 5, is a jewel of a module. How is it posible that such a stupid code van do so much. Recategorzing info. Do you understand what that means?

Categorizing is grouping in groups of groups. Did you ever try it by hand?

For understanding the code we are targeted to members who want to extend the code. And we are not targeted to others.

I am not spending much time on you. I have really to do more then that. Please tell me that I am not welcome here and then I go.

ed van der meulen

ed van der meulen <ameulen>
Wed 26 Jan 2005 06:17:34 PM UTC, comment #9: 

I show a result from what we do more. Promoting very real New ERA with worldpeace and we are already far with that. And that in different countries.

This is a paper about it

http://nnw.berlios.de/docs.php/era-000a/noflash

And here I don't feel trusted. Can't you see at what I have told you about NNW-np that it's a serious project.

When you see our sources you don't see the wood for the trees. So then you can't judge it. Aren't you underestimating me?

I can't even  ask for members here. So strange.

You only can ask me more questions.

sleep well

ed

ed van der meulen <ameulen>
Wed 26 Jan 2005 05:11:48 PM UTC, comment #8: 

I logged in successfully now and tried to post something, No error till now, and now I submit.

I hope I have answered your question of mirroring this nnw-np project. That is not true the souces we will put there are maybe some early tryouts but they are nor really working and unusable for others who don't know enough

Our sources you have to see in layers. The first layers is to read a paper. And the second layer and third one we are describing in the sources then selves. Later we will will copy the paper also in the sources. Bit we like a nice formulation. Really to the point and convincing.

We also see different target groups. Not all people are technical. So language people exist as well.

We know that VA is a comwercial firm. But we need a lot of new mebers. In future we wil start more projects as well.

I email also with a lot of people and our influence is growing. I can also show you that.

For instance I have falsified the big mathematical theories and the manuin mathematical paradoxes. Also a nice activity.

We are working with factual thinking and acting, a very productive and nice to do way.

Also for the sciences but now even for the human sciences as wel. FT Factual thinking. Please remember the name. It will change all the normal sciences. So you can see our influence. And everything we do so everybody can see what we do.

This is a well known paper:

http://fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-10-20-01.en.html

Have a splendid day

ed van der meulen <ameulen>
Wed 26 Jan 2005 10:22:42 AM UTC, comment #7: 

I tried to login, again without success. The previous posting should be logged in. As well as this one. Savannah is now more a problem for me than another thing.

Please have a good day.

Anonymous
Wed 26 Jan 2005 10:15:59 AM UTC, comment #6: 

Zeus is the super God, isn't he?

Do you see your posting here as friendly and tolerant to me?

We are hosting the mother project NNW on different mirrors.

We have two new project.

1. simulation of the folding of proteins and chromosomes. A very wished tool in those sciences.

2. solving NP problems.

Neither will get mirrors. We have to start more projects on the same basis.

So on Sourforge there is no real project NNW-NP but an empty one. With a few fake modules. But we need a lot of members so we need that.

I can better leave the small Savannah then.

We are not dependent on Savannah. We can also promote the free software idea ourside Savannah.

Please have a nice day

Anonymous
Wed 26 Jan 2005 02:49:21 AM UTC, comment #5: 

Hi ed van der meulen,

As I read in your answer, I notice that you have this project hosted
at SourceForge.net, this is an important things, because we do not
accept mirroring at Savannah, this means that Savanna must be your
primary development platform. If you want to host your project at
Savannah, you have to delete or mark it as relocated at
SourceForge.net.

On the other hand, I asked you for a tarball, because we want to be
sure that the user doesn't have any kind of legal issue with
dependencies or even in the process of license his project, that's why
I request you a tarball. Well to solve this problem we created a
process to approve this kind of project and it's approve them as
without source code, in this case we will check your CVS code catching
any legal issue.

If you are agree with delete or mark as relocated your project at
SourceForge, we will reconsider your project for inclusion in
Savannah.

Regards,

Jonathan Gonzalez V. <zeus>
Project MemberIn charge of this item.
Tue 25 Jan 2005 09:38:46 PM UTC, comment #4: 

Our situation. Sorry for the long test, But you need some info from me.

We have an NNW project, Neu(neural) Net Works, on different mirrors needing PHP and a database. That project NNW is promoting the free software idea extended with free science in the open net. So eveybody can see our papers (also about that project and a lot more (some 800 papers)

We also use our own mailing lists.

This is one of the mirrors:

http://nnw.psydolphin.net/flash.php

In our projects we first think and when we know enough then we are coding. Early we can make tryouts often in perl.

We are spreading now because we have a real view on the reality

This is an link about that. It about layers every where. In the air, in the soil sediment layers, ion our skin everywhere.

This view has scientific basis

http://nnw.berlios.de/docs.php/intro-layr

The basis for this paper is a work out in understandable texts from famous mathematicians and physicists. We try to reach as much people with it.

We also do a lot more in that NNW mother project. We are now extending our influence by more projects on the same basis. That basis is very productive

The NNW NP project is one of the new projects we like to start up. We need new members for it and we do our best for that.

Do you have more members here? We can use all kind of members. They only have to have brains. Creativity that is important for us.

Your remark. My answer: I tried to login, but I wasn't successful so I have posted anonymously.

We have already many ideas, but for coding we have to make them exact.

Later I will make the emails (40) available in a paper on a site of us. The NNW project with mirrors and now further projects is already quite large.

On sourceforge we will try to have also a project but mainly for new members. We are needing a lot of then. We have much to do.

So a tarball. That's now too early, we are here in the preparing phase.

Why do you want a tarball with sources? I will put the normal gnu texts at the beginning of the source modules.

Spreading more projects is taking also much time of me. Some members of NNW are helping me with it.

All happens with us by only friendly emailing. Nothing is obliged, but the members are choosing good jobs. And the active members are fond of the pathways we are using. We also have a monthly NNW Chronicle aring the 15th of the month. always with much news in it and wI am a language lover so with other things. as well

Members are alowed to email about all they want. also about international jokes, the international weather. Gardening, chess and what they like. And because they like thei want to much for this friendly project. So I rely also on the members. I know I need them. And because we cobine all our knowledge we are coming far.

Our coding style is for making simulation tools. Those are also for education. They could work together with deductive tools with much more useful tools. For many people is what we do too new.

Everyone could see many paper of us about various subjects. And we do a lot of promoting.

I am also a pure mathematician. I know the limits of mathematics as well. And in our simulating tools we are hardly using mathematics. And some people see that as odd.

What I can show is some of the 40 emails. Our way is friendly emailing and the emails are versions. When things are clear to us we have the step from the reality of for instance a river system to the reality of the computer. So we will get exact things. I can tell a lot about our ways.

Our situation,

We have an NNW project, Neu(neural) Net Works, on different mirrors needing PHP and a database. That project NNW is promoting the free software idea extended with free science in the open net. So eveybody can see our papers (also about that project and a lot more (some 800 papers)

We also use our own mailing lists.

This is one of the mirrors:

http://nnw.psydolphin.net/flash.php

In our projects we first think and when we know enough then we are coding. Early we can make tryouts often in perl.

We are spreading now because we have a real view on the reality

This is an link about that. It about layers every where. In the air, in the soil sediment layers, ion our skin everywhere.

This view has scientific basis

http://nnw.berlios.de/docs.php/intro-layr

The basis for this paper is a work out in understandable texts from famous mathematicians and physicists. We try to reach as much people with it.

We are using forgotten ideas from famous scientists in the past. Ideas that the establishment didn't like. And that is enough for us. The establishment didn't like much. And that is a rich source for us.

Does the establishment like Savannah? And do you see yourself as unimportant. In that way we look also to people like Henri Jules Poincaré with a forgotten paper form 1899. From the forgotten start of the then famous Santa Fe group over taken by the establishment. From Turing from Gödel. From Church, from Einstein and the physicist Lorenz. Not from the Lorenz contractors, which is according to us a wrong interpretation, that throws away much info. I email a lot about those things as well.

That kind of people. Only with Internet we survive now. No one can overtake us. We are staying independent. We aren't for sale. And the world will hear of us.

I am sending many emails in my own country and debate posting to the big universities in the USA, also full of news.

So there's ha penning something. And we don't go away for nobody. Only we do it in a friendly way. In my own country I am sending charm emails to conquer the hearts of people.

And friendliness is contagious.

We also do a lot more in that NNW mother project. We are now extending our influence by more projects on the same basis. That basis is very productive

The NNW NP project is one of the new projects we like to start up. We need new members for it and we do our best for that.

Do you have more members here? We can use all kind of users. They only have to have brains. Creativity that is important for us.

Your remark: I tried to login, but I wasn't successful so I have posted anonymously.

We have already many ideas. but for coding we have to make them exact.

Later I will make the emails (40) available in a paper on a site of us. The NNW project with mirrors and now further projects is already quite large.

On sourceforge we will try to have also a project but mainly for new members. We are needing a lot of them. We have much to do.

So a tarball. That's now too early, we are here in the preparing phase.

Why do you want a tarball with sources? I will put the normal gnu texts at the beginning of the source modules.

The modules themselves are readable in layers from global to precise. Everything is a little bit different with us as well. So we can't use object orientated programming. We nearly need to use C, close to the machines. And we are never in a hurry and the things go fast enough.

Spreading more projects is taking also much time of me. Some members of NNW are helping me with it.

All happens with us by only friendly emailing. Nothing is obliged, but the members are choosing good jobs. And the active members are fond of the pathways we are using. We also have a monthly NNW Chronicle arriving the 15th of the month. Always with much news in it and I am a language lover so with other things as well.

Members are allowed to email about all they want. also about international jokes, the international weather. Gardening, chess and what they like. And because they like they want to do much for this friendly project. So I rely also on the members. I know I need them. And because we combine all our knowledge from also very different members we are coming far.

Our coding style is for making simulation tools. Those are also for education. They could work together with deductive tools with much more useful tools. For many people is what we do too new.

Everyone could see many paper of us about various subjects. And we do a lot of promoting.

I am also a pure mathematician. I know the limits of mathematics as well. And in our simulating tools we are hardly using mathematics. And some people see that as odd.

What I can show is some of the 40 emails. Our way is friendly emailing and the emails have versions. When things are clear to us we have the step from the reality of for instance a river system to the reality of the computer. So we will get exact things. There's much to about our ways. And the most of it new for many people.

And you can ask me everything you like.

Thanks for your reaction

ed van der meulen

ed van der meulen <ameulen>
Tue 25 Jan 2005 08:03:31 PM UTC, comment #3: 

[I take the liberty to clarify the situation; the project is reviewed by Jonathan, not myself]

Hello Ed Van Der Meulen (I think it's you, you were not logged in when posting this reply; if you can, always log in so we can know who is posting comments or admin requests that need authentication).

You indeed sent mail to savannah-hackers about the project. However, we have always asked you to submit a project instead.

This is an organizational problem: mails posted to the savannah-hackers are archived, but not classified. Besides, newer Savannah hackers, like Jonathan, are not expected to browse the whole archive. So, all information relevant to this project should be classified using a project submission :)

Another problem is the time we spend on each submission; in order to be able to spend as much time as possible on improving Savannah, we ask the project submitters to help us as much as possible with providing information on the project during the approval process.

In our case, we need a URL to the latest source code tarball of your project. Or you can upload the source code to this tracker. Is it possible?

Sylvain Beucler <Beuc>
Mon 24 Jan 2005 06:19:21 PM UTC, comment #2: 

We have exchanged about 40 emails about it fuul of info about thay non-polynomial prblem. Usiong all oinformnatien we could get. And that is always more than we can plan. It must be done by creative people who stimulate each other like in a godd conversation. Those are our ways.

Anonymous
Mon 24 Jan 2005 01:45:26 PM UTC, comment #1: 

Hi,

I'm evaluating the project you submitted for approval in Savannah.

Can you provide us with an URL to download you tarball? or if you
prefer you can submitted to this tracker.

We wish to review your source code, even if it is not functional, to
catch potential legal issues early.

For example, to release your program properly under the GPL you must
include a copyright notice and permission-to-copy statements at
the beginning of every file of source code.  This is explained in
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html.  Our review would help catch
potential omissions such as these.

Regards,

Jonathan Gonzalez V. <zeus>
Project MemberIn charge of this item.
Tue 18 Jan 2005 04:16:21 PM UTC, original submission:  

Site Admin. Approval/Edition URL:
 <https://savannah.gnu.org/admin/groupedit.php?group_id=7239>

###### ORIGINAL SUBMISSION DETAILS ######

System Group Name:
-----------------
  nnw-np

Full Name:
----------
  North North West non-polynomial

Type:
-----
  GNU

License:
--------
  GNU General Public License V2 or later

Other License:
--------------

Description:
------------
  Project Information
 -------------------

 1. Submitter: ameulen (ed van der meulen)

 2. Project UNIX Name: nnw-np

 3. Project Descriptive Name: North North West non-polynomial

 4. License: GNU General Public License (GPL) (free sofrtware)

 License other:

 5. Project Description: NNW-NP ( North North West non polynomial problems)

 Bring back and develop NP in a friendly approach, using whats needed, why not?

 6. Registration Description: We know Gödel with his incompleteness proof. We know of Popper with his idea falsify the theories and find new approaches.

 A great project to look in an new way to that mathematical NP problems. Look at the traveling salesman. He travels along fixed cities and has to find the shortest route. The answer can change when we will shift a city a little bit. A city can be situated at a critical spot. We have already some 40 emails about it. Jon Tait and I have exchanged them. The way is to use all information that is available. And not using just one theory, which is more limited. The wide world has more information. That are our ways. These are very wanted products as well.

 We say we have enough large computes so the cities have integer coordinates. That is nice. We look up distances in a table now. And computing stays limited. So lazy we are, for sure.

 For instance. When we have a route can we shift a city so the route stays the same. This kind of information we can use as well.

 Or the opposite. We have an ideal route. readily the shortest one. Maybe there are more. Finding one is the goal. But what can we see as the properties then. Global and local properties. And in this way we are reasoning.

 So we thank Jon Tait for his work and the emails we have exchanged. Jon Tait's applet:

 http://www.missouri.edu/~clj4hf/TravellingApplet.html

 We have now a clearer picture of Factual Thinking. Also where we see striking things, also here we recognize them we identify them we can see essential things. Is this Factual thinking. We can use that for this project.

 We already know that we see with our eyes into directions and then find things. So we don't start with the cities nor the routes but we find them. This is already opposite to the normal mathematical way.

 We have written about 40 long emails about. Which is enough for us for a serious start.

Please have a nice day

ed van der meulen

Other Software Required:
------------------------

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---------------

#########################################

ed van der meulen <ameulen>

 

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Follow 8 latest changes.

Date Changed by Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced by
2005-01-28 Beuc StatusNone => Cancelled
    Open/ClosedOpen => Closed
2005-01-27 zeus Percent Complete50% => 30%
2005-01-26 zeus Percent Complete10% => 50%
2005-01-24 zeus Should Start On- => 2005-01-24
    Should be Finished on- => 2005-01-24
    Percent Complete0% => 10%
    Assigned toNone => zeus

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