taskSavannah Administration - Tasks: task #15757, Submission of Guix Translations

 
 

task #15757: Submission of Guix Translations

Submitted by:  julien lepiller <roptat>
Submitted on:  Sun 23 Aug 2020 06:58:33 PM UTC  
 
Should Start On:  Sun 23 Aug 2020 12:00:00 AM UTC Should be Finished on:  Wed 02 Sep 2020 12:00:00 AM UTC
Category:  Project Approval Priority:  5 - Normal
Status:  In Progress Privacy:  Public
Percent Complete:  0% Assigned to:  Amin Bandali <bandali>
Open/Closed:  Open Effort:  0.00

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Fri 30 Apr 2021 11:28:09 PM UTC, comment #20: 

Hi Julien, all,

[ Sorry for my being absent here.  Things have been a bit crazy around
  here, but are gradually calming down again, so I will have more time
  on my hands again. ]

Julien, have there been any updates on your end since the last round
of discussions here with Ineiev?

Regarding copyright notices for translations and the role of gettext
in general, I don't think it's particularly helpful to penalize Guix
for that if other GNU packages are indeed affected similarly.  If so,
and if necessary, would you be interested/able to follow up with the
developers of gettext to see about making improvements that would
benefit all users of gettext (including Guix) with respect to license
and/or copyright notices, Julien?

Thanks,
amin

Amin Bandali <bandali>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 23 Jan 2021 10:37:51 AM UTC, comment #19: 

> Since we never required copyright to be assigned to the FSF, I think it stays with the individual authors. Is that correct?


Yes, unless they did that work for hire or assigned their copyright to someone else.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Thu 21 Jan 2021 07:48:48 PM UTC, comment #18: 

comment #17:

> comment #15:
> >
> > Again, this is a constant in GNU projects that use the Translation Project.
>
> I don't think this is correct.


For instance, https://translationproject.org/PO-files/fr/dfarc-3.14.fr.po is from a project that doesn't require copyright assignment to the FSF, yet it is copyright the FSF only (and for only 2008 and 2009, then nothing even though there are more recent changes).

In https://translationproject.org/PO-files/es/dfarc-3.14.es.po, the copyright is associated with the first author, the others are simply listed.

Since we never required copyright to be assigned to the FSF, I think it stays with the individual authors. Is that correct? In that case, would adding "Copyright" before each author be a good solution?

Or maybe better, since weblate is using the same template as the TP (using the same copyright as the pot file, then listing individual authors):

Copyright (c) YEAR the authors of guix (msgids) and the authors of this file (listed below).

> > Alright, I fixed .gitignore and manifest.scm, but I copied CODE-OF-CONDUCT
> > from the main Guix repo, where it does not have any license header either.
>
> If a file has no copyright and license notices, it's technically not just proprietary, it's unredistributable, making any copying a copyright violation.


Sure. The file originally comes from https://www.contributor-covenant.org. I've added a license notice.

julien lepiller <roptat>
Thu 21 Jan 2021 06:18:46 PM UTC, comment #17: 

comment #15:

>
> Again, this is a constant in GNU projects that use the Translation Project.


I don't think this is correct.

> Msgids (untranslated strings) are copyright the authors of Guix, but the
> translated strings are attributed to individual translators, listed below.
> I can add the word "Copyright", but I'm not sure it changes anything, does
> it?


The authors and the copyright holders are different concepts.  The author is the person who does the work, the copyright holder is the person who may legally license the work.  In particular, if the authors assign copyright to the FSF, they are not copyright holders any more.

In PO files, the authors should be listed separately from the copyright notices.  GNU documentation explains that records of authors should be kept in a dedicated file, AUTHORS,
https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Recording-Contributors.html

> Alright, I fixed .gitignore and manifest.scm, but I copied CODE-OF-CONDUCT
> from the main Guix repo, where it does not have any license header either.


If a file has no copyright and license notices, it's technically not just proprietary, it's unredistributable, making any copying a copyright violation.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Thu 21 Jan 2021 05:50:22 PM UTC, comment #16: 

comment #14:

>
> Ineiev, I created a new 'Extras for official GNU software' category

...

> Would you please
> have a look and finish its configuration, so that when the above
> points are addressed I'd approve the project and select the new
> category upon approval?


I've modified the description a little bit; the rest looks good to me (if anything is missing, we can update the configuration later).

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Wed 13 Jan 2021 12:27:58 PM UTC, comment #15: 

comment #14:

>
> - For the po and pot files, would it not be more helpful and clearer
>   to mention the license which "the guix manual package", "the guix
>   package", or "GNU guix package" is distributed under?
>
>   Also, for the pot files, I think it would make sense to mention,
>   perhaps on a separate line, the copyright year(s) at the top of each
>   file.


These pot files are generated using gettext, so that's difficult to do.
If you look at other GNU projects, all the pot files are similar.

> - Is it accurate that the copyright holders even for the translated
>   strings in the po files are "the authors of Guix" or "the authors of
>   the Guix Website"?  I think the translators would be the copyright
>   holders for the translations, no?  If so, would you please make that
>   change across those files?  I think it would also be useful for each
>   file to list the name of all translators/copyright holders for
>   clarity.


Again, this is a constant in GNU projects that use the Translation Project.
Msgids (untranslated strings) are copyright the authors of Guix, but the
translated strings are attributed to individual translators, listed below.
I can add the word "Copyright", but I'm not sure it changes anything, does
it?

> - The following files are missing a license header/notice in them:
>
>   - .gitignore
>   - CODE-OF-CONDUCT
>   - manifest.scm


Alright, I fixed .gitignore and manifest.scm, but I copied CODE-OF-CONDUCT
from the main Guix repo, where it does not have any license header either.

julien lepiller <roptat>
Wed 13 Jan 2021 05:05:17 AM UTC, comment #14: 

Julien,

[ my apologies for the slow reply ]

Thanks; I've reviewed the files in the repository.  A few comments:

- For the po and pot files, would it not be more helpful and clearer
  to mention the license which "the guix manual package", "the guix
  package", or "GNU guix package" is distributed under?

  Also, for the pot files, I think it would make sense to mention,
  perhaps on a separate line, the copyright year(s) at the top of each
  file.

- Is it accurate that the copyright holders even for the translated
  strings in the po files are "the authors of Guix" or "the authors of
  the Guix Website"?  I think the translators would be the copyright
  holders for the translations, no?  If so, would you please make that
  change across those files?  I think it would also be useful for each
  file to list the name of all translators/copyright holders for
  clarity.

- The following files are missing a license header/notice in them:

  - .gitignore
  - CODE-OF-CONDUCT
  - manifest.scm

                                 * * *

Ineiev, I created a new 'Extras for official GNU software' category
per our earlier discussion, on the savannah.gnu.org base domain.
However I'm not entirely certain about the correct settings for all
of the required configuration parameters for it.  Would you please
have a look and finish its configuration, so that when the above
points are addressed I'd approve the project and select the new
category upon approval?

Thanks.

Amin Bandali <bandali>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 28 Dec 2020 02:23:31 PM UTC, comment #13: 

I am currently hosting the files at https://framagit.org/tyreunom/guix-translations

julien lepiller <roptat>
Thu 24 Dec 2020 02:14:32 PM UTC, comment #12: 

Indeed, or alternatively a link to a repository or other location where I could evaluate the latest version of the files.

Amin Bandali <bandali>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu 24 Dec 2020 08:43:28 AM UTC, comment #11: 

Yes, we'll need a new tarball to evaluate.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Wed 23 Dec 2020 11:05:20 PM UTC, comment #10: 

комментарий №9:

> Hi, sorry again for the delay! I thought I had commented about it previously, but I must have done something wrong, because my comment doesn't appear after all.
>
> We have contacted all our contributors and managed to fix the copyright issues.


Does it mean a new tarball needs to be uploaded here, for bandali or another admin to check it for project approval?

Svetlana T <svetlana>
Mon 21 Dec 2020 02:23:23 PM UTC, comment #9: 

Hi, sorry again for the delay! I thought I had commented about it previously, but I must have done something wrong, because my comment doesn't appear after all.

We have contacted all our contributors and managed to fix the copyright issues.

julien lepiller <roptat>
Mon 12 Oct 2020 06:03:32 PM UTC, comment #8: 

Sorry for the time it took us to fix these issues. These issues were introduced partly because of the way we generate the pot files (now fixed) and partly because our translators copied po files from other languages. The correct copyright holder should be "the authors of Guix".

Future languages will immediately get the correct notice, while current languages still need to be fixed. We are in the process of contacting our translators to ask them to fix the copyright notice and resubmit to the TP, so we won't accidentally re-introduce these issues.

julien lepiller <roptat>
Tue 08 Sep 2020 03:08:10 PM UTC, comment #7: 

comment #6:

> comment #5:
> >
> > I'm inclined to think that as of now, "Official GNU software" is the
> > best choice for guix-i18n, given that Guix itself is "Official GNU
> > software" and translations are most often considered part of the same
> > project.
>
> Well, a part of an official GNU package isn't necessarily also a GNU
> package (in most cases it isn't). for example, we don't want all
> possible parts of GNU packages to be listed on https://www.gnu.org/s
> as GNU packages (that would be neither feasible nor useful).
>


Okay I think I see your point.

>
> > However, if we'd like to add new group types for translations, the
> > possible candidates could be "Translations of official GNU software"
> > and "Translations of non-GNU software and documentation".
> >
> > If we are aiming to be more general than just translations, we could
> > perhaps do "Extras for official GNU software" and "Extras for non-GNU
> > software and documentation"?
>
> "Extras" or "portions" look good to me; I'm not sure we'll need the
> "non-GNU" counterpart: likewise, we have no "nongnu translation teams"
> or "non-GNU user groups".


Either of those would work for me as well.  And sure, we can only add
what we need right now, and only add the others at some point in the
future if there is an actual need for them.

Amin Bandali <bandali>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 08 Sep 2020 01:55:35 PM UTC, comment #6: 

comment #5:

>
> I'm inclined to think that as of now, "Official GNU software" is the
> best choice for guix-i18n, given that Guix itself is "Official GNU
> software" and translations are most often considered part of the same
> project.


Well, a part of an official GNU package isn't necessarily also a GNU package (in most cases it isn't). for example, we don't want all possible parts of GNU packages to be listed on https://www.gnu.org/s as GNU packages (that would be neither feasible nor useful).

> However, if we'd like to add new group types for translations, the
> possible candidates could be "Translations of official GNU software"
> and "Translations of non-GNU software and documentation".
>
> If we are aiming to be more general than just translations, we could
> perhaps do "Extras for official GNU software" and "Extras for non-GNU
> software and documentation"?


"Extras" or "portions" look good to me; I'm not sure we'll need the "non-GNU" counterpart: likewise, we have no "nongnu translation teams" or "non-GNU user groups".

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Mon 07 Sep 2020 01:17:24 PM UTC, comment #5: 

comment #3:

> Another thought: this type of group, "Official GNU Software", is reserved for GNU packages; probably we'll want to use something different, like "www.gnu.org translation teams", or create a new group type.


I'm inclined to think that as of now, "Official GNU software" is the
best choice for guix-i18n, given that Guix itself is "Official GNU
software" and translations are most often considered part of the same
project.

However, if we'd like to add new group types for translations, the
possible candidates could be "Translations of official GNU software"
and "Translations of non-GNU software and documentation".

If we are aiming to be more general than just translations, we could
perhaps do "Extras for official GNU software" and "Extras for non-GNU
software and documentation"?

Amin Bandali <bandali>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 07 Sep 2020 01:09:01 PM UTC, comment #4: 

Hi Julien,

comment #2:

> Hi Amin,
>
> thanks for taking a look at this. I have simply copied the po and pot files as they are present or generated in the guix repository, so the issue is with these files. I've sent a message to the development list at https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-08/msg00195.html to collect more thoughts on what to do. I agree with you that they should be copyrighted the authors of guix. You'll see that po files also have a copyright line for each individual translator who worked on it.


Thank you for your reply.  I will keep an eye on that thread and see
what comes of it, so we could all act accordingly.

Amin Bandali <bandali>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 07 Sep 2020 09:12:25 AM UTC, comment #3: 

Another thought: this type of group, "Official GNU Software", is reserved for GNU packages; probably we'll want to use something different, like "www.gnu.org translation teams", or create a new group type.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Tue 01 Sep 2020 02:15:34 PM UTC, comment #2: 

Hi Amin,

thanks for taking a look at this. I have simply copied the po and pot files as they are present or generated in the guix repository, so the issue is with these files. I've sent a message to the development list at https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-08/msg00195.html to collect more thoughts on what to do. I agree with you that they should be copyrighted the authors of guix. You'll see that po files also have a copyright line for each individual translator who worked on it.

julien lepiller <roptat>
Mon 31 Aug 2020 10:33:11 AM UTC, comment #1: 

Hi Julien,

Thanks for the submission.

I had a quick look through the attached tarball.  I have a couple of
questions regarding the copyright headers, in both pot files and po
files.

I see that all of the pot files have the following copyright notice,
with Ludo’ listed as the only copyright holder:

    Copyright (C) YEAR Ludovic Courtès

Since Ludo’ isn't the only copyright holder and contributor to Guix
(anymore :-)), wouldn't it be more appropriate to have something like
the following?

    Copyright (C) YEAR the authors of Guix (msgids)

Which is what I see is used in some of the po files.  Would that be more
in line with <https://translationproject.org/html/whydisclaim.html>?

Also, I see some of the po files mention the Free Software Foundation as
the copyright holder.  Is that indeed the case?  I'm curious since Guix
itself is not copyright FSF and does not requirement assignment from
contributors.

For what it's worth, I ask these questions both as a reviewer and on a
personal level (I have been looking into translating Guix recently).

Thanks,
amin

Amin Bandali <bandali>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 23 Aug 2020 06:58:33 PM UTC, original submission:  

A new project has been registered at Savannah
This project account will remain inactive until a site admin approves
or discards the registration.

Registration Administration

While this item will be useful to track the registration process,
approving or discarding the registration must be done using the specific Group Administration page, accessible only to site administrators,
effectively logged as site administrators (superuser):

Registration Details

  • Name: Guix Translations
  • System Name:  guix-i18n
  • Type: Official GNU software
  • License: GNU General Public License v3 or later

Description:

This project contains the translation files for GNU Guix, a transactional package manager and an advanced distribution of the GNU system that respects user freedom. Our translation interface uses this repository to pick up new translation work, as well as commit translation done by our translators. This needs to be done in a separate repository, so that we don't need to give access to an external tool to our own repositories.

Other Comments:

The purpose of this separate project, instead of using a separate repository in the Guix project, is to prevent our tool from having access to the repository. Even though it would be configured to access only that separate repository, but the public key would still able to push to other parts of the project, and we don't want that.

Note that I'm not a maintainer of Guix, but I'm a member of it, and more or less responsible for NLS stuff. We have discussed this in our ML, see https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-02/msg00360.html (yeah, I know it was some time ago ^^')

Tarball URL:

https://savannah.gnu.org/submissions_uploads/guix-translations.tar.gz

julien lepiller <roptat>

 

(Note: upload size limit is set to 16384 kB, after insertion of the required escape characters.)

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