taskSavannah Administration - Tasks: task #16088, Submission of datestamp

 
 

task #16088: Submission of datestamp

Submitter:  निरंजन <niruvt>
Submitted:  Sat 04 Dec 2021 07:05:19 PM UTC
   
 
Should Start On:  Sat 04 Dec 2021 12:00:00 AM UTC Should be Finished on:  Tue 14 Dec 2021 12:00:00 AM UTC
Category:  Project Approval Priority:  * 5 - Normal
Status:  Done Privacy:  Public
Assigned to:  ineiev Open/Closed:  Closed
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Sat 18 Dec 2021 12:36:26 PM UTC, comment #26: 

Thank you, I've just removed the group.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Wed 15 Dec 2021 04:59:20 AM UTC, comment #25: 

Thanks a lot for waiting. Project has been successfully shifted and released, you can remove it from here now.

निरंजन <niruvt>
Tue 14 Dec 2021 09:40:05 AM UTC, comment #24: 

comment #23:

> 1. My package isn't LPPL'ed. I was releasing it with GPLv3 only.


To be precise, "GPL version 3 or (at your option) any later version".  If you link your GPL'ed program with a GPL-incompatible software, you should provide a permission,

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs

Your users still won't be able to combine your program with third-party software released under the GPL.

> 2. As far as I understand it (I might be wrong); the kernel is loaded at every compile from 2020+. Even the next part of your comment sounded a bit strange to me. Let's say I have source-code for program `i' stored in file `i.xyz' written in language `xyz'. Now the `i.xyz' needs to be compiled with the xyz compiler in order to get `i.pqr' file which is our actual `program' that runs. As far as I understand it, without the compiler one wouldn't get the program. So how is the source-code not dependent on the compiler?


The GPL isn't written in terms of dependencies, it has requirements for derived works.   The program isn't combined with the code of the compiler (i.e. LuaTeX), so they don't make a larger program that would qualify as a derived work.

> In the LaTeX-scenario if the kernel is loaded (and loading it is a strict requirement) at every compile, then why won't you call it a dependency?


If I understood it correctly, the kernel and your program form a larger "executable", so the GPL applied to your program should cover that combination as whole (unless you add a special permission to link with the kernel).

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Tue 14 Dec 2021 03:18:50 AM UTC, comment #23: 

Karl,

I will split my comment in three parts:

1. My package isn't LPPL'ed. I was releasing it with GPLv3 only.

2. As far as I understand it (I might be wrong); the kernel is loaded at every compile from 2020+. Even the next part of your comment sounded a bit strange to me. Let's say I have source-code for program `i' stored in file `i.xyz' written in language `xyz'. Now the `i.xyz' needs to be compiled with the xyz compiler in order to get `i.pqr' file which is our actual `program' that runs. As far as I understand it, without the compiler one wouldn't get the program. So how is the source-code not dependent on the compiler? In the LaTeX-scenario if the kernel is loaded (and loading it is a strict requirement) at every compile, then why won't you call it a dependency?


3. This part is related to my analysis of the dependencies (as I understand them) of my package.

The following is a minimal code-snippet demonstrating the use of my package:


\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{datestamp}
\listfiles % Required for listing files

\begin{document}
\adddatestamp{firstdate}
\end{document}


If I compile this program with LuaLaTeX, I get a list of files required by the program. As soon as I load a package by the \usepackage command, I call for some packages. The list is as follows:


 *File List*
 article.cls    2021/10/04 v1.4n Standard LaTeX document class
  size10.clo    2021/10/04 v1.4n Standard LaTeX file (size option)
datestamp.sty    2021/10/22 v0.1 Fixed date-stamps with LuaLaTeX.
  xparse.sty    2021-11-12 L3 Experimental document command parser
   expl3.sty    2021-11-22 L3 programming layer (loader)
l3backend-luatex.def    2021-10-18 L3 backend support: PDF output (LuaTeX)
  ts1cmr.fd    2019/12/16 v2.5j Standard LaTeX font definitions
 ***********


If I don't have one of these file, the compiler will complain about the respective file being absent. Now in my understanding this is clearly a dependency. Now if you check the licenses of the above mentioned files, almost all of them are LPPL'ed which in my opinion was the biggest problem. Now I would love to see how the Savannah community thinks about it. Even though my packages are refused and this package is soon to be removed, I would like to hear your comments.

PS: `datestamp' got approval on `Puszcza'! Yayy :)
    https://puszcza.gnu.org.ua/projects/datestamp

निरंजन <niruvt>
Mon 13 Dec 2021 10:07:12 PM UTC, comment #22: 

I believe the LaTeX kernel is (surely) an independent work relative to the engine it's running on (LuaTeX, pdfTeX, XeTeX), so the licenses need not be compatible. Like the license of a C compiler and the license of a C program it compiles need not be compatible.

In any case, the LPPL (all versions) and the GPL are (clearly, IMHO) incompatible, so LPPL-licensed projects are not eligible for Savannah. Hence I told niranjan about puszcza ...

Karl Berry <karl>
Site Administrator
Mon 13 Dec 2021 06:04:18 PM UTC, comment #21: 

Sure. Thanks a lot :)
I'll do it as soon as possible.

निरंजन <niruvt>
Mon 13 Dec 2021 06:03:13 PM UTC, comment #20: 

Let me know when you are ready.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Mon 13 Dec 2021 06:00:19 PM UTC, comment #19: 

No need to be sorry, that's my fault too.

I would maybe just request to keep it for a few days till it gets accepted on Puszcza if that's acceptable. So that people don't face much difficulty.

निरंजन <niruvt>
Mon 13 Dec 2021 05:56:09 PM UTC, comment #18: 

I see, then we have to remove your package.  I'm sorry, I should have noticed that a week earlier.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Mon 13 Dec 2021 02:01:17 PM UTC, comment #17: 


> While discussing with a senior member of the LaTeX community


This person was Karl only :)

He has suggested me to shift all my projects to Puszcza instead of Savannah. It's not much of a problem for other projects as they aren't even approved here, but datestamp is approved as well as released on the CTAN: https://ctan.org/pkg/datestamp

निरंजन <niruvt>
Mon 13 Dec 2021 10:56:54 AM UTC, comment #16: 

Karl, could you comment on this?  The package uses LuaTeX which is GPLv2+ and LaTeX whose licensing is probably GPL-incompatible.  What conditions apply to such cases?

comment #15:

> While discussing with a senior member of the LaTeX community I realized that other than the engines and TeX-distribution, LaTeX-packages also have depend on the LaTeX kernel which is unfortunately licensed under LPPL. Also LaTeX-packages might sometimes load some other packages for a specific functionality which might again load some other and so on. Almost all the files getting loaded by running my example-file were LPPL'ed. LPPL v1.2 and it's earlier versions were declared as incompatible by the FSF, but the latest one 1.3c is still under review. I am extremely sorry for not knowing this before the project getting approved.
>
> Now that I have understood all of this I am noting it down here. In any case I am ready to take my package back from the site if it's necessary. Thanks for your support so far.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Sun 12 Dec 2021 09:25:51 AM UTC, comment #15: 

While discussing with a senior member of the LaTeX community I realized that other than the engines and TeX-distribution, LaTeX-packages also have depend on the LaTeX kernel which is unfortunately licensed under LPPL. Also LaTeX-packages might sometimes load some other packages for a specific functionality which might again load some other and so on. Almost all the files getting loaded by running my example-file were LPPL'ed. LPPL v1.2 and it's earlier versions were declared as incompatible by the FSF, but the latest one 1.3c is still under review. I am extremely sorry for not knowing this before the project getting approved.

Now that I have understood all of this I am noting it down here. In any case I am ready to take my package back from the site if it's necessary. Thanks for your support so far.

निरंजन <niruvt>
Fri 10 Dec 2021 08:32:33 AM UTC, comment #14: 

For the records:

I visited https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-1.3.tex as per
the recommendation of Ineiev, but I can't use that file
without modifications as it has `\chapter` command which is
incompatible with the `documentclass` I am using
i.e. `l3doc`.

The file has no copyright notice at the beginning, which as
per the rules of hosting at Savannah is necessary. Hence it
needs a lot of modification. In that case, I would prefer
using the file that I have already modified with an
additional comment redirecting readers to the web-page of
the GFDL on GNU's website.

निरंजन <niruvt>
Fri 10 Dec 2021 06:14:30 AM UTC, comment #13: 


> Using a copy of an officially published file would make it
> easier for your users to check whether they actually see
> the GNU license they mean, unmodified, and to update it
> when new versions of the GFDL are published.


Okay, I'll do that. Thanks.

> I think you can check it yourself now.


Yes :)

निरंजन <niruvt>
Fri 10 Dec 2021 06:11:52 AM UTC, comment #12: 

comment #11:

> > To avoid confusion in gfdl-tex.tex, I recommend
> > considering a way to include fdl-1.3.tex from
> > http://www.gnu.org directly.
>
> I have seen that file, but I didn't like its indentation, so
> I used this one, I hope that's not a serious problem.


Using a copy of an officially published file would make it easier for your users to check whether they actually see the GNU license they mean, unmodified, and to update it when new versions of the GFDL are published.

...

> I was assuming their structure by looking at
> the URLs of other projects, so I asked if I am guessing the
> structure correctly or not, never mind, I received an e-mail
> from Savannah which had the URL similar to mine, so I think
> I have guessed it correctly. Thanks.


I think you can check it yourself now.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Fri 10 Dec 2021 05:58:40 AM UTC, comment #11: 


> Thank you, approving.


Thanks a lot!

> To avoid confusion in gfdl-tex.tex, I recommend
> considering a way to include fdl-1.3.tex from
> http://www.gnu.org directly.


I have seen that file, but I didn't like its indentation, so
I used this one, I hope that's not a serious problem.

> I don't think I understand the question. "Safeness" can't be
> abstract, it implies a threat model, and I see no obvious
> threat model.


Maybe I used a wrong word or didn't provide enough context.
It simply meant whether the URLs I mentioned will work or
they are wrong. I was assuming their structure by looking at
the URLs of other projects, so I asked if I am guessing the
structure correctly or not, never mind, I received an e-mail
from Savannah which had the URL similar to mine, so I think
I have guessed it correctly. Thanks.

निरंजन <niruvt>
Fri 10 Dec 2021 05:51:15 AM UTC, comment #10: 

comment #9:

> > Could you check the form of your copyright notices, again?
>
> Sorry, in two files I had written the copyright year after my name which was one mistake I found. Corrected now. Is there anything else?


Thank you, approving.

To avoid confusion in gfdl-tex.tex, I recommend considering a way to include fdl-1.3.tex from www.gnu.org directly.

> Also did you miss my question regarding the URLs?
>
> >> No problem. Just let me know if using the following URLs is
> >> safe or not:
> >> Repository: http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/<project>
> >> Bugs:       http://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?group=<project>


I don't think I understand the question.  "Safeness" can't be abstract, it implies a threat model, and I see no obvious threat model.

For supported URLs, please check our documentation, https://savannah.nongnu.org/maintenance/FrontPage/

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Thu 09 Dec 2021 05:55:01 PM UTC, comment #9: 


> Could you check the form of your copyright notices, again?


Sorry, in two files I had written the copyright year after my name which was one mistake I found. Corrected now. Is there anything else?

Also did you miss my question regarding the URLs?

>> No problem. Just let me know if using the following URLs is
>> safe or not:
>> Repository: http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/<project>
>> Bugs:       http://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?group=<project>


(file #52466)

निरंजन <niruvt>
Thu 09 Dec 2021 05:08:29 PM UTC, comment #8: 

Thank you!

Could you check the form of your copyright notices, again?

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Thu 09 Dec 2021 11:36:57 AM UTC, comment #7: 


> Savannah has a stricter hosting requirement than just
> having no proprietary dependencies: the hosted packages
> should be compatible with the GPL version 3 and any later
> version. If you link your package with a program released
> under the GPL version 2 only, the combination will be
> GPLv2-only, making your program effectively
> GPLv3-incompatible.


Okay.

Fortunately I was wrong about the license of LuaTeX. On the
CTAN-page of both of this software[1] the license mentioned
was GPLv2 without any extra information. Usually if a
package is licensed with the condition `or any later
version' they explicitly mention it on the website.
(e.g. See the entry with the title Licenses at the CTAN-page
of my package tipauni: https://ctan.org/pkg/tipauni. It says
GPLv3 or any later.) but I don't know why they didn't
mention this for LuaTeX (https://ctan.org/pkg/luatex) I'll
contact them and request them to update the page with the
correct license information, because:

1. If I run `luatex --version`, I get:


This is LuaTeX, Version 1.13.2 (TeX Live 2021)

Execute  'luatex --credits'  for credits and version details.

There is NO warranty. Redistribution of this software is covered by
the terms of the GNU General Public License, version 2 or (at your option)
any later version. For more information about these matters, see the file
named COPYING and the LuaTeX source.

LuaTeX is Copyright 2021 Taco Hoekwater and the LuaTeX Team.


2. If I run `lualatex --version`, I get:


This is LuaHBTeX, Version 1.13.2 (TeX Live 2021)

Execute  'luahbtex --credits'  for credits and version details.

There is NO warranty. Redistribution of this software is covered by
the terms of the GNU General Public License, version 2 or (at your option)
any later version. For more information about these matters, see the file
named COPYING and the LuaTeX source.

LuaTeX is Copyright 2021 Taco Hoekwater and the LuaTeX Team.


So I was wrong when I said it is GPLv2 only, their
copyright notice seems to be pretty clear. Extremely sorry
for the confusion. I was mislead by some wrong information
on the CTAN.

>  No, HTTPS isn't more safe. The integrity of the released
> packages is ensured with the GPG signature, it can't be
> enforced at the level of the website because we use
> mirrors, so basically anyone can setup a mirror and offer
> forged releases, and using HTTPS can't prevent or even
> detect that.


Okay, thanks for the information :)

> No; the URL depends on the VCS and the method one uses to
> access the repository. I shan't discuss all possibilities
> here.


No problem. Just let me know if using the following URLs is
safe or not:

Repository: http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/<project>
Bugs:     http://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?group=<project>

निरंजन <niruvt>
Thu 09 Dec 2021 10:48:36 AM UTC, comment #6: 

comment #4:

> So one can run my program with the
> LuaLaTeX engine which is GPLv2-licensed. So nothing in this
> package depends on any non-free software.


Savannah has a stricter hosting requirement than just having no proprietary dependencies: the hosted packages should be compatible with the GPL version 3 and any later version.  If you link your package with a program released under the GPL version 2 only, the combination will be GPLv2-only, making your program effectively GPLv3-incompatible.

comment #5:

> 1. Why is this http and not https? Not an expert, but isn't
>    the later more safe?


No, HTTPS isn't more safe.  The integrity of the released packages is ensured with the GPG signature, it can't be enforced at the level of the website because we use mirrors, so basically anyone can setup a mirror and offer forged releases, and using HTTPS can't prevent or even detect that.

> 2. My question was not about the download area. While
>    browsing through some other projects, I noticed that the
>    general structure of the URL of any repository is like
>    https://web.cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/<project>,
>    is that correct?


No; the URL depends on the VCS and the method one uses to access the repository.  I shan't discuss all possibilities here.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Mon 06 Dec 2021 04:29:41 PM UTC, comment #5: 


> Your download area will be:
> http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/datestamp/


Two questions:

1. Why is this http and not https? Not an expert, but isn't
   the later more safe?
2. My question was not about the download area. While
   browsing through some other projects, I noticed that the
   general structure of the URL of any repository is like
   https://web.cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/<project>,
   is that correct? I am asking this because in the LaTeX
   community it's a general practice to give the link to the
   repository of the package as well as the link to it's bug
   tracker. So would
   http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/datestamp be the
   correct URL to the repository or
   https://web.cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/datestamp?
   Also for the bug tracker would
   https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?group=datestamp do?

निरंजन <niruvt>
Mon 06 Dec 2021 06:17:29 AM UTC, comment #4: 


> Please check again: files like
> testfiles/datestamp-example.lvt still have the old form
> of copyright line.


Sorry for that. Corrected now.

> You'll be able to create it when your package is approved
> on Savannah; then you'll be able to do it in the
> administration area of your package on the 'Select
> Features' page.


Okay. Thanks for letting me know that.

> In short, it means using git-format-patch; please read Git
> documentation.


Sure.

> Thank you!  Now you should find out its licensing terms
> and how they may affect your package.


I'll list everything down here as well as in the description
once the is approved.

Prerequisites: 2020+ TeX distribution which can be
downloaded from: https://www.tug.org/texlive/acquire.html

The entire TeX distribution doesn't have a license, but TeX
Live (as a policy: https://www.tug.org/texlive/copying.html)
only accepts free software, but there is no single copyright
holder for the entire distribution. For copying conditions
of this distribution, please refer to this:
https://www.tug.org/texlive/LICENSE.TL

After running `l3build install` in datestamp/datestamp, the
package gets installed. So one can run my program with the
LuaLaTeX engine which is GPLv2-licensed. So nothing in this
package depends on any non-free software.

(file #52438)

निरंजन <niruvt>
Sun 05 Dec 2021 11:26:41 AM UTC, comment #3: 


>
> I have corrected the copyright notice. Sorry for the silly mistake. I am uploading the corrected version again.


Thank you!

Please check again: files like testfiles/datestamp-example.lvt still have the old form of copyright line.

> I was going through the link you shared for importing git history. I created an ssh-key, added it to my Savannah account too, but it's not clear how to create a new git project here. Can you please help?


You'll be able to create it when your package is approved on Savannah; then you'll be able to do it in the administration area of your package on the 'Select Features' page.

> Also I didn't understand what you meant by submitting patches. Is there any write-up for a newbie which I can read in order to understand the process?


In short, it means using git-format-patch; please read Git documentation.

> The only dependency of this project is a TeX installation (e.g. TeX Live 2020+) For instructions see: https://www.tug.org/texlive/acquire.html

...

> Once you get the sty, you can compile the example files using lualatex.


Thank you!  Now you should find out its licensing terms and how they may affect your package.

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Sun 05 Dec 2021 09:17:44 AM UTC, comment #2: 

@Ineiev,

Thanks a lot for your feedback!

I have corrected the copyright notice. Sorry for the silly mistake. I am uploading the corrected version again.

I was going through the link you shared for importing git history. I created an ssh-key, added it to my Savannah account too, but it's not clear how to create a new git project here. Can you please help?

Also I didn't understand what you meant by submitting patches. Is there any write-up for a newbie which I can read in order to understand the process?

The only dependency of this project is a TeX installation (e.g. TeX Live 2020+) For instructions see: https://www.tug.org/texlive/acquire.html

After installing the TeX-distribution, you will be able to compile the program using l3build/latex/xelatex/lualatex and obtain the datestamp.sty. Once you get the sty, you can compile the example files using lualatex.

(file #52434)

निरंजन <niruvt>
Sun 05 Dec 2021 06:37:51 AM UTC, comment #1: 

First, I'll try to answer your questions.

> 1) As I have so far used Git for information tracking of this project, will my commit history be visible on Savannah?


If you wish, you can import your history, https://savannah.nongnu.org/maintenance/UsingGit/

> 2) Can people submit merge requests (like on Gitlab) to projects on Savannah?


I'm not sure what "like on Gitlab" means.  Savannah doesn't offer per-user repositories; people have to provide patches, links to repositories or something like that.

> If this project gets published on Savannah, what would be it's URL?


Your download area will behttp://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/datestamp/ (see https://savannah.nongnu.org/maintenance/DownloadArea/).  However, the tarball you submit at this tracker won't be automatically published there, so you'll be able to fix anything you need before releasing it.

Now, please list your dependencies with links to their licenses; also, I've noticed that copyright notices in your tarball don't follow the recommended form: they miss the 'Copyright' word,

https://savannah.nongnu.org/maintenance/ValidNotices/
https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Notices.html

Could you fix that?

Ineiev <ineiev>
Site Administrator
Sat 04 Dec 2021 07:05:19 PM UTC, original submission:  

A new project has been registered at Savannah
This project account will remain inactive until a site admin approves
or discards the registration.


Registration Administration


While this item will be useful to track the registration process,
approving or discarding the registration must be done using the specific Group Administration page, accessible only to site administrators,
effectively logged as site administrators (superuser):



Registration Details


  • Name: datestamp
  • System Name:  datestamp
  • Type: non-GNU software and documentation
  • License: GNU General Public License v3 or later





Description:

Add fixed date-stamps in LaTeX documents with simple and customizable aux files and LuaLaTeX. As long as the aux file is not deleted/modified the date-stamp generated with this package remains intact.


Other Comments:

Hello people,

This is my first ever Savannah project. I am very glad and excited to see how this process works. Please note that even if you find no mistake in this upload, please don't approve the project immediately. Consider this as a work-in-progress project. The explanation for this is at the end of this message.

This particular upload is of a LaTeX package named `datestamp'. It's first version is already released on the Central TeX Archive Network: https://ctan.org/pkg/datestamp. I want to host this software on Savannah from it's second version. The tarball attached here is of it's second version only.

I have two questions.

1) As I have so far used Git for information tracking of this project, will my commit history be visible on Savannah?
2) Can people submit merge requests (like on Gitlab) to projects on Savannah?

Now why this upload is WIP, is because I need to add the URL for the bug tracker in my package documentation, readme file and in various files in this package. With Gitlab I know how my project's URL looks after the release, but I don't know how it looks in Savannah. So I need help from you people in this regard. If this project gets published on Savannah, what would be it's URL? After knowing that, I will make changes everywhere in the package and then re-upload it with the correct links.

Best,
निरंजन


Tarball URL:

https://savannah.nongnu.org/submissions_uploads/datestamp-v0.2.tar.gz


निरंजन <niruvt>

 

(Note: upload size limit is set to 16384 kB, after insertion of the required escape characters.)

Attach Files:
   
   
Comment:
   

Attached Files
file #52466:  datestamp.tar.gz added by niruvt (292KiB - application/gzip)
file #52458:  datestamp-final.tar.gz added by niruvt (292KiB - application/gzip - removal of the build/ directory)
file #52457:  datestamp.tar.gz added by niruvt (425KiB - application/gzip - Removed GitLab links)
file #52438:  datestamp.tar.gz added by niruvt (292KiB - application/gzip - Copyright notice in the datestamp/datestamp/testfiles/datestamp-example.lvt file corrected.)
file #52434:  datestamp.tar.gz added by niruvt (292KiB - application/gzip)

 

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Items that depend on this one: None found

 

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    Follow 15 latest changes.

    Date Changed by Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced by
    2021-12-18 ineiev StatusIn Progress Done
        Open/ClosedOpen Closed
    2021-12-13 ineiev Carbon-CopyRemoved karl -
    2021-12-13 ineiev StatusDone In Progress
        Open/ClosedClosed Open
    2021-12-13 ineiev Carbon-Copy- Added karl
    2021-12-10 ineiev StatusIn Progress Done
        Open/ClosedOpen Closed
    2021-12-09 niruvt Attached File- Added datestamp.tar.gz, #52466
    2021-12-09 niruvt Attached File- Added datestamp-final.tar.gz, #52458
    2021-12-09 niruvt Attached File- Added datestamp.tar.gz, #52457
    2021-12-06 niruvt Attached File- Added datestamp.tar.gz, #52438
    2021-12-05 niruvt Attached File- Added datestamp.tar.gz, #52434
    2021-12-05 ineiev StatusNone In Progress
        Assigned toNone ineiev

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